Reform is Needed?
I suggest skipping the rest of this month to allow everyone to get regrouped. Dan can kick off the new stretch in June. I suggest that we mail or cd's out at the beginning of each month and have everyone respond by the last day of the month in which they recieved the cd. If we stay true to this then I believe that things will move smoothly. If we are too busy to respond to a cd within a months time then maybe we should rethink our memberships? Just throwing out thoughts for us to chew on. What are your thoughts?
posted by C.F. Bear at 9:59 AM
24 Comments:
I don't think postponing another month is absolutely nesessary.
To bag and skin the white elephant, I'll just say, mea culpa on this one. I was graciously invited and have been less than timely with responses.
What I will say -- the only excuse I feel is worth relating -- is that it's been with caution that I've moved forwarded with comments, disc creation, and so forth in this initial stage. I've been re-acclimating to the rhythm of the Waterloo group. It's likely just my tendency to start slow and tread quietly.
But, that stage is past. This co-op has been very gracious, Dan especially for inviting me in. So, just my comments on this. I wish not to have my membership revoked.
I am in no way trying to get anyone's membership revoked, I just want to get us thinking of how to make it work better. I am looking for dialog. If someone is too busy, then maybe he might think about stepping out until another time.
To me, it started when MT sent his disk out in late November. That messed up my month and I waited to deliver mine in January. Ever since then months and cd have been clashing and banging around. We even skipped a month or two to let us catch up and it has not helped much. Everyone (myself included) has commented way down the road on someone's cd.
It worked great at the beginning, but has gotten clogged! Pun intended. Mybe it's just me, but I doubt it. If everyone is content with how it is going now then I will abide by it's direction.
I want to appologize to anyone who might take offense. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I truly dig all members and love what they have to offer. I admire Steve for his slow and careful comments. I am too quick to respond at times, and maybe I should slow it down?
I am in no way bitter about late comments. Glad to get them when I get them. I am just wanting to get things smoothed out if other agree that they need to be smoothed out.
I am appologizing because I think that my delivery might make it sound as if I am on some high horse. Not my intentions I assure you. I love the CMC and want it to succeed and function well for everyone. Peace out brothers!
In the end of the day, if once a month is too frequent for people's schedules - and perhaps only I have extreme latitude on my free time (no kids, no school, no teaching). By god what am I doing with my time!
Long story short, I don't care that it's uber rigid timing-wise, although we did boot some people for not keeping up...
I hereby pledge to keep up.
Cory wants more discs and fewer comments and discussion
I would like fewer discs with more comments and more discussion
How about a compromise. One disc per two months. It has probably been the average anyway. What's the rush. We could even try Dan's conference call discussion idea and it might satisfy Cory's need for specifics if not his desire for free music.
I am finding myself increasingly in the position Aaron was in when he was "booted" (though it must be noted to ultimately "booted" himself). But I have swung full circle on this, with the birth of my 2nd child and free time at a premium into the foreseeable future.
I cannot pledge to keep up; not and keep any substance to my commentary. But that actually brings me to what I feel is the real divide in the CMC. It seems there are two opposite ends of the spectrum: one end being people who are interested in long-winded discussions about music, and the other end being people who love to get free CDs. It has led to a rather constant tension between the two and a bit of an ongoing, frustrating feeling by those of us in the former category that we are endlessly wanking off into the void.
My comment being typed while Gibbs typed his, apparently. We're both saying a similar thing.
(Started prior to Dan's)
I hadn't considered that angle - hilarious even if not true.
As the progenitor of this version, if not the idea, I never thought it would add undue stress to people's lives. 30 days to listen to ten songs and do a write up hardly seems like a particularly onerous chore. For me, the listening happens as part of my normal music listening experience, involving absolutely no extra work. The write up usually takes a few hours over several nights - certainly a commitment of time I could be using to do other things. I have the benefit of generally more free time as previously stated.
This endeavor should be fun. Period. We all may invest a certain amount of anxiety in creating our respective collections and that seems inevitable other than not doing this at all. But otherwise, it should still be fun, even if you hate the songs you are reviewing.
We need to get over any hang-ups anyone has about comments to comments to comments. We all have a unique sense of what we're trying to get out of this and it's wrong to impose your own view on the others beyond listening and getting comments done. It shouldn't be insulting to not go six iterations deep into comments. If the interest is there, it will go where it will. A blog isn't necessarily the best format for a 'discussion', though I doubt that a conference call would be better.
Sometimes wanking into the void should be satisfying in and of itself. If it's not, wank elsewhere.
It's a balance, and all this meta conversation gets us close to understanding the expectations.
MT is close. I love getting a cd each month and I like the twice per year when I get to send something out. I like the comments. I learn a lot from your comments. My comments are smaller because I don't know so much about music as you guys. That's nothing new. People who really dive deep into the comments need more time. I get that.
For me, I can listen for 3 1/2 weeks and spend a day or two writing comments. MT and others might need 3-4 weeks just to listen and then a week or two to create detailed and organized comments.
So where do we go from here. I am willing to do every other month if that's what everyone wants to do. Maybe there is another idea out there that we can chew on? This is what I hoped to accomplish. Thanks for the input thus far.
I will preface this by saying that I'm really, really, REALLLLY not getting riled up or insulted or anything of the like - I think this is a very necessary discussion.
Many things Mixx says are striking a chord with me:
30 days to listen to ten songs and do a write up hardly seems like a particularly onerous chore True. Hardly seems like it should be. But it has been, for me. So there it is.
This endeavor should be fun. Period. There are definitely parts of it that are great fun. I love putting together the disc. And when I actually have the time set aside for the writing of comments, or comments to comments, or what have you - and get on a roll - it can be fun. But omnipresent deadlines, and the shuffling of priorities in order to set aside time to listen closely or to comment - NOT fun.
It shouldn't be insulting to not go six iterations deep into comments. Not insulting, but definitely disappointing, for me. It's not what I originally had the idea the whole thing would be, when Mixdorf suggested it. If other people think I'm taking the wrong approach to the whole thing - well, that's what this whole discussion is about.
A blog isn't necessarily the best format for a 'discussion' Perhaps that's the current that I am struggling, futiley, against.
It really is pretty clear that my expectation for what this should/could be is different from some other participants. And the last thing I really need is yet another forum for wanking off into the void.
With that, I think I should tender my resignation. I'll get comments to Mixx's last collection before I get my sheets and pillow and go.
I too have typed as others have posted. I say stress free please. Nobody should feel stress in this space. I will do what ever works best for the whole and causes no stress.
Because it is so much fun for me, I crave endless cd's. I wish I had a sliver of the musical knowledge as you guys have. I learn a lot by what you guys have posted.
Again, my intent was to regather the troops and get CMC back on some kind of track. Maybe I was the only one who felt that it was getting out of control? Sounds like the direction is heading for every other month? Can we have the person who is sending out cd's send them at the beginning of the month?
Stress free and fun is the name of the game. In my book all four of you guys are rock stars!
Nice job Clog. This has gone where no man has gone before.
First and foremost - I don't care in the least what the interval is between collections. I gave up applying pressure, or caring to apply pressure long ago relative to this.
Secondly, as a result of that lack of caring, I didn't think ANYONE wasn't keeping up their end.
Thirdly, as to the six-deep iterations, not all of us are passionate about the same things and so a comment may not spark the hoped for response. In addition to what work the rest of this entails feeling obligated to comment on things just for the sake of commenting is really asking to make this into drudgery. From all of the various blogs we generate and comment to, the ones that generate the most interest are often completely unexpected. Dan's movie post the other day sparked a discussion almost entirely about Three's Company. It was clear that this was not the intention. But, it was still interesting.
Everyone among us other than the blogless MT has gone to the trouble of posting something that appeared to go entirely unnoticed. It happens. It should not be taken as insulting.
Fourth, I would strongly encourage Dan to remain, for a whole host of reasons, but he certainly shouldn't leave on the account of pressure from artificial timetables.
I don't know whether more time will make the depth of the discussions any greater (in fact I doubt it will change it at all) but if it makes life easier, than let's just go with the flow.
It may also be that for whatever reason people need to beg off a month. That should be ok too, so long as it doesn't become too common.
As with Mixdorf - I really do not care about the interval - it obviously hasn't been once a month anyway and I cannot imagine being booted out by my friends for being a little "late" from time to time. I'll probably be late again in the future - it just take me a long time. I am a bit slow I guess, but I would hope that I would not be abandoned.
I too, would very much like to see Dan remain.
I feel like a dick hole! I should be kicked out for bringing us to this point. ***SIGH***
Hmmm. Everything Mixdorf says continues to be right on the mark. I could almost be willing to at least TRY to alter my expectations, but my concerns:
- I worry I may not have a gear to switch back to. Leaving briefer commentary (which would almost certainly have to be more superficial & glossy) may leave be unsatisfied. Again - not my original idea of the CMC, for better or worse.
- More importantly - I fear, as we approach the Cory end of the specturm, we get into an area that none of us have really discussed, which is music piracy. I've long been in pretty staunch opposition to file sharing & the like (relative to my peers, I think), but I rationalized the CMC with the idea that we are all hearing music that we might, otherwise, never hear; and thus, actually INCREASING our opoprtunity for purchasing music from those artists. If this endeavor is anywhere close to 50% being about just bulking up your music collection for free (as opposed to fruitful discussion about music), I'd rather not be part of it.
On a side note - Mixdorf, a couple of posts back, suggested that blogs weren't the best forum for discussion. By gum, he's right. Have we considered migrating the forum to a "forum?" Yahoo! has free user gropus & message board capability out there, where it would be a lot more obvious when someone has posted a comment to a comment and so forth, rather than having to scrooooooooll down down down down every time you want to see if someone responded to something, historically.
Now THIS is a MOTHERFUCKING discussion!
I personally feel no concerns about music piracy, simply from the fact that since the advent of this I've bought several albums by the artists showcased. I certainly haven't bought them all, but I think the heart is in the right place.
I'm not going to comment less than I currently do regardless of the time frame, although perhaps I wasn't living up to my commenting responsibilities.
I don't care much for the Cory end of things comment. The dick (me) just keeps getting bigger.
Fuck! Why am I always the flippin one on the outside looking in? This went a completely different turn then I expected today.
It looks like all I want is free cd's and no comments. Not true at all. I love one per month because I am getting a music education from you guys. I feel like I have nothing to offer and everything to gain. I am hungry to learn from you guys. So I take offense to the implied notion that all I want is free music.
Shit, this discussion has really put me in the crapper today. I applogize for the trip through Shitty Discussion Hall.
Blood on the Blog today.
I don't think anyone is feeling the need to apologize or is feeling offended except T-Clog, who is apparently feeling both (?!)
But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for me to back out at this point. This futile tug & pull of mine, trying to elicit commentary on music that is near to dear to my heart (and ultimately not getting that which I crave) is not new to me. McCartpilation, anyone? My own recordings, for crying out loud? No, it is clear that what I am after and what the general public is willing to offer up are to very different things. I think I deserve some credit for letting that finally sink in and taking a step back.
I appreciate the votes of confidence in having me stay in but I think the time is right. Here's to hoping I find new ways to touch you each (figuratively) with random bouts of spontaneous creative energy in the future. Happy listening!
My dear friend this is exactly why I feel that I need to appologize. I might have offended Steve and I caused you to back out of CMC. I had a deep sense that CMC was not as fun for some as it was for others. I also feel like since I don't have a lot to offer that I am this huge, and I mean HUGE, dope that spouts off at the mouth and asks for reform when really I should probably keep my yapp shut.
You might not think that I need to apologize, but I feel that I do. You are very graceous for saying that I don't need to.
I am very sad that you are backing out. I am also sorry for being this polarizing factor within the CMC and group as a whole. For what it's worth, I really would like you to stay and that I would make an effort into meeting you half way with more indepth commentary no matter what the time frame.
In regaurds to your personal albums and McCarpilation, I always appreciate your products. I would be willing to make that effort in to giving you what you crave if your willing to stay in CMC.
Music exploration and analysis that is stress free and fun! should be the new mission statement. One CD whenever Motha Flubber!
Holy crap, this is what goes on while I'm working!
Seriously, I'm not offended, never was. It takes a lot to get me there. I'm trying to think of the last time something really pissed me off (personally, not politically).
For whatever it's worth, this is been a fascinating experience so far. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it's true. This is not an opportunity I get much of elsewhere in my daily life, so I hope it continues on in here. And really, if being a little more free flowing, less deadline-oriented means Dan stays in, that'd be worth it.
T-Clog: Do not despair. You did not force anyone out the door. You simply opened the door to a necessary discussion.
Indeed, I appreciate your (and others') willingness to bend on the "deadlines" end of things.
Of course, that was only part of the equestion - and least from my standpoint: which is that I'm just not getting what I need out of the CMC. I don't think you or anyone else making extra efforts at accomodating my desire for more commentary/discussion as a means of keeping me in the CMC is a very good idea. Beyond making me into goofball who whines until he gets his way (or plants a seed of wonder in peoples' minds as to whether my near-exit was an attention-getting stunt), it runs counter to the entire philosophy that has been running through this discussion: LESS PRESSURE. As heartfelt and generous as the offer was, I can't think of many things less healthy for the future of this collective than to have people blackmailed into ocmmenting how someone else thinks they should.
Also - I have a vague sense that the grind of "the deep listen and hours set aside for comments" is going to seem like a grind to me, whether it is a month or three months in between releases. I do get the sense that other people take a different approach to listening. I don't listen while doing housework, or while driving in the car. Oh, I do that to, but in order to prepare myself for commentary, I set aside time to listen with headphones on, doing nothing else. It's part of the grind.
WOW! When was the last time we had a post that had 23 comments?
Dan, thanks for taking the pressure off my back and for your honesty.
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